Post by telemachus on Apr 13, 2023 17:11:24 GMT
Telemachus was shot blasted and 2-pac blacked in 2011. In 2016 we took it out of the water at Glascote dry dock and jet washed and abraded the hull (which was still in pretty good condition) and put on another coat of the backing. It barely needed it apart from having faded to a light grey colour.
Fast forward to 2023 and post some ice breaking in January, we’d better get it re-blacked but pay someone to do it. Amongst other places, I emailed this boat yard for a quote. I said it was a 59’ Hudson and blacked up to the gunnels. I said it would need abrading before putting on more 2-pac blacking. I said the Sigmacover 300 that had been on it was no longer available (pesky EU didn’t like coal tar epoxy) so whatever went on would need to be compatible.
I got a good reply, they had been in touch with the proposed blacking manufacturer, who had said their product (SML Ballastic epoxy) would be compatible but the old stuff would need a good abrading. Done homework. Tick. Price not too bad (£1330). Tick. So let’s go for it.
It was booked in for Easter Monday. I said do you really mean Monday, it’s a bank holiday, and Tuesday would suit me better. They said ok, Tuesday. A week later I got a call “Oh no, we changed our minds, it has to be Monday. A month passed and then with a few days to run they said “Oh actually, it needs to be Tuesday”. OK, no problem I suppose (even though I had arranged to get down from Aberdeen and position the boat in time for the Monday.
Tuesday 8am was thus the appointed time. Bit early, but never mind. So we arrived. And they said it will be 1/2hr or so until we can get you in. I could have had another 1/2hr in bed! Then the owner pitched up and said “Ah, we got a bit of a problem with another boat, it might have to be tomorrow”. I said “Hmmm, this is not ideal!” and he went away to think about it. Came back and said “ok, today it is” and so we got slipped up into the shed at about 9.
Went away to get a naughty Weatherspoons cooked breakfast as a reward for having to get up so early. Came back late morning, they had jet washed it up to the D bar (rubbing strake) but left the top foot or so of old blacking still dirty and a bit green. I said “hang on, you need to do it right up to the gunnels as per my email and your quote”. “Oh, most boats are only blacked up to the D bar, I’ll speak to the yard manager.”
Yard manager and author of the quote email pitched up and denied knowledge that it was to be blacked up to the gunnels, I had to show him the email trail which made it quite clear. “Ok, fine” he said, and his guys cleaned the top part. His quote had been for 1 coat around the waterline and then 2 full coats. I said OK I think with 2 pac, no need for the waterline bit, just put on 2 full coats. I was being nice!
Sometime later that day I heard paint tins rattling. But there had been no abrading. I said “hang on, what about the abrading”. “Oh that is done by the jet wash”. “No” says I, “abrading means sanding.” “OK fine” says the guy and disappears off to get the yard manager. He said they didn’t normally abrade 2pac. I said “but in my initial email enquiry I said abrading would be required, and in your reply you said the manufacturer had said “heavy abrading required”. He denied saying that until I showed him his own email. Bit grumpy but out came the sander and a fairly good job was made of it in the end.
Then 2 coats of blacking over 2 days. Not the blacking they said would be used (SML Ballastic epoxy) but Hempadur 45143. Which actually was fine by me but still, not what they said they would do. Also 4 new anodes which I had fortunately previously priced.
Then came time for the bill. After a prolonged confab in the office with the boss, yard manager presented me with a bill including an extra £280 for the blacking between D bar and gunnels. I said that’s not on, I was very clear about what I wanted and you gave me a firm price for it. He said he’d made a mistake and not quoted for the extra above. I said that was unfortunate but it wasn’t reasonable to quote for a job and then change the price after it was done. Grudgingly eventually he removed the extra, but generally moaned about that and having to sand it. I said sanding old 2 pac before applying new stuff was standard practice. He said they never normally did it and it had never been a problem. <Well not a problem for the first few months of course> I thought to myself.
Hopefully we will escape tomorrow morning, and I think eventually a good job has been done but only because I battled them on several points. Leaves a bit of a bad taste.
I also note that they talk about blacking taking a total of 3 days. I think this is OK for 2-pac because it cures by chemical reaction, not by drying out, and continues to cure under water (bit soft for a while, I’ll need to avoid hitting things!) but surely 3 days total for conventional blacking isn’t anything like long enough to allow it to dry properly?
Not sure we’ll be back, which is a shame because the actual workmanship was fine.
Fast forward to 2023 and post some ice breaking in January, we’d better get it re-blacked but pay someone to do it. Amongst other places, I emailed this boat yard for a quote. I said it was a 59’ Hudson and blacked up to the gunnels. I said it would need abrading before putting on more 2-pac blacking. I said the Sigmacover 300 that had been on it was no longer available (pesky EU didn’t like coal tar epoxy) so whatever went on would need to be compatible.
I got a good reply, they had been in touch with the proposed blacking manufacturer, who had said their product (SML Ballastic epoxy) would be compatible but the old stuff would need a good abrading. Done homework. Tick. Price not too bad (£1330). Tick. So let’s go for it.
It was booked in for Easter Monday. I said do you really mean Monday, it’s a bank holiday, and Tuesday would suit me better. They said ok, Tuesday. A week later I got a call “Oh no, we changed our minds, it has to be Monday. A month passed and then with a few days to run they said “Oh actually, it needs to be Tuesday”. OK, no problem I suppose (even though I had arranged to get down from Aberdeen and position the boat in time for the Monday.
Tuesday 8am was thus the appointed time. Bit early, but never mind. So we arrived. And they said it will be 1/2hr or so until we can get you in. I could have had another 1/2hr in bed! Then the owner pitched up and said “Ah, we got a bit of a problem with another boat, it might have to be tomorrow”. I said “Hmmm, this is not ideal!” and he went away to think about it. Came back and said “ok, today it is” and so we got slipped up into the shed at about 9.
Went away to get a naughty Weatherspoons cooked breakfast as a reward for having to get up so early. Came back late morning, they had jet washed it up to the D bar (rubbing strake) but left the top foot or so of old blacking still dirty and a bit green. I said “hang on, you need to do it right up to the gunnels as per my email and your quote”. “Oh, most boats are only blacked up to the D bar, I’ll speak to the yard manager.”
Yard manager and author of the quote email pitched up and denied knowledge that it was to be blacked up to the gunnels, I had to show him the email trail which made it quite clear. “Ok, fine” he said, and his guys cleaned the top part. His quote had been for 1 coat around the waterline and then 2 full coats. I said OK I think with 2 pac, no need for the waterline bit, just put on 2 full coats. I was being nice!
Sometime later that day I heard paint tins rattling. But there had been no abrading. I said “hang on, what about the abrading”. “Oh that is done by the jet wash”. “No” says I, “abrading means sanding.” “OK fine” says the guy and disappears off to get the yard manager. He said they didn’t normally abrade 2pac. I said “but in my initial email enquiry I said abrading would be required, and in your reply you said the manufacturer had said “heavy abrading required”. He denied saying that until I showed him his own email. Bit grumpy but out came the sander and a fairly good job was made of it in the end.
Then 2 coats of blacking over 2 days. Not the blacking they said would be used (SML Ballastic epoxy) but Hempadur 45143. Which actually was fine by me but still, not what they said they would do. Also 4 new anodes which I had fortunately previously priced.
Then came time for the bill. After a prolonged confab in the office with the boss, yard manager presented me with a bill including an extra £280 for the blacking between D bar and gunnels. I said that’s not on, I was very clear about what I wanted and you gave me a firm price for it. He said he’d made a mistake and not quoted for the extra above. I said that was unfortunate but it wasn’t reasonable to quote for a job and then change the price after it was done. Grudgingly eventually he removed the extra, but generally moaned about that and having to sand it. I said sanding old 2 pac before applying new stuff was standard practice. He said they never normally did it and it had never been a problem. <Well not a problem for the first few months of course> I thought to myself.
Hopefully we will escape tomorrow morning, and I think eventually a good job has been done but only because I battled them on several points. Leaves a bit of a bad taste.
I also note that they talk about blacking taking a total of 3 days. I think this is OK for 2-pac because it cures by chemical reaction, not by drying out, and continues to cure under water (bit soft for a while, I’ll need to avoid hitting things!) but surely 3 days total for conventional blacking isn’t anything like long enough to allow it to dry properly?
Not sure we’ll be back, which is a shame because the actual workmanship was fine.
